Rules of Engagement - a poll for readers and writers

[leethet]

I've been reading, and trying to write, in a new-to-me fandom. This, and my archiving of my MFU stuff on AO3, has made me think about something.

One of the things I like about LJ is that it makes actual comments about as easy as it's possible to make them barring being face to face with an author after you've finished a story (well, easier than that - what if you hated it?). One of the things I've observed in my own reading behavior in this "new" fandom is my own commenting. Now, I don't finish about 90 percent of the stories I start to read (this is true of any fandom). Of the ones I finish, I find most to be just OK (keep in mind this includes my own [see earlier poll] so I hope I don't sound too awful). Because of this, that "kudos" button is the easiest thing in the world. It sends an accurately mild (in terms of my time investment) "this was OK" message to the author.

I like it and I don't like it.

I like it because it's the exact right level of involvement for a story I only sorta liked. If I really like something I leave a comment, because if I really like something, there's always something I have to say about it.

It echoes the "like" button on FB. This is why I don't like it (yes, I'm a hypocrite. Or just human). One of the things I don't like about FB is the pretense it allows of intimacy. Of engagement. It's an extension of those Christmas form letters - "Dear INSERT NAME HERE" followed by some boasting. It (FB) allows people to pretend to maintain relationships without any of the actual (to my old-fashioned mind) maintenance of those relationships.

In this way the "kudos" button is the same; it permits readers to feel like they've "done their part" (I don't, for the record, think readers are required to do squat for writers - just so that's clear) without having actually troubled to give real feedback. Then again, do people use it because they can't think of what to say, because they're lazy, because they're busy, because they're intimidated - or because, like me, they don't really like most stories enough to feel they merit more than a lazy, in-passing thumbs up (again, I'm not finding fault with any of these approaches, just wondering)?

So, a poll. And, as always, please elaborate in comments. The way writers and readers think about stories is endlessly fascinating to me.
[Poll #1974799]

Comments

[elmey.livejournal.com]

This is an interesting subject. As much as I love getting comments and kudos as a writer, I just don't think there's any way to make readers leave them, and as a reader I'm pretty much impervious to such requests.

I have to like something about a story to leave a kudos. That can range from an author trying something different to a nice turn of phrase, to characterization I appreciate even if the story itself could be better. If I really like the story I'll comment. If someone is putting up old stories, I might just kudos instead of commenting when I run across them, there are other variations, my behaviour isn't totally consistent.

But you know, I don't read everything; I tend to skip drabbles and very short fic; I skip stories whose subject matter doesn't interest me. If the characterizations don't suit me (which happens fairly often) if I'm in a bad mood--I'll stop reading quickly. Maybe on a different day I would have tried harder. Lots of stories go by the wayside that way. I'm quite sure my stories get the same treatment from readers too, that's just how it is.

Because I do the mfu_shortstorie listings I see a lot of commenting behaviour in action, and it's actually helped me become pretty mellow about the reaction to the stories I write. There are stories that I think are tremendous that don't get much reaction. Stories that I think are trite and/or badly written that have kudos out the wazoo. So much fanfic is id driven--readers have needs they want the stories to fill, and our needs aren't always the same.

In some of the younger fandoms it seems to be de rigeur to leave kudos easily. I don't think that's true in our fandom. When the kudos system started it was so rarely used I suspected people thought their computers would explode if they hit that weird button :D But I think it's changing as people get used to the idea.

I should add the one time I do try very hard to comment (or kudos at least) is if I'm participating in a challenge. It's a small fandom and I consider it a salute to my fellow writers to acknowledge that we're in it together.

[leethet.livejournal.com]

You make a lot of points I agree with.
1. Old story archiving would naturally get fewer hits and even fewer comments or kudos than new stuff.
2. Taste and mood have as much to do with what we read or like as quality, if not more. It's no judgment against, say, a good time shift or het or established relationship story that I don't read them. It's not my flavor of the thing is all. Like you, I've seen stories I think are poor that get a lot of good reaction, and vice versa - so it's in large part simply about taste.
3. Younger fandoms. See, that might be the real niggle. The in-passing stroke that leaves the stroker satisfied he or she has done the right thing. That's so Facebook. So modern.
4. The challenge thing. Yes. That's about a sense of community above all else, I think. If I'm involved, I try to be supportive and quash my tendency to criticize. That's a part of why I tend not to get involved in those things - I'm not actually comfortable in that role.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

I will say this: Getting kudos from someone who gives a kudos to everything regardless of its merit, has less effect than if it comes from someone who I recognize as being thoughtful about the process.
There's no right answer to this.

[leethet.livejournal.com]

Absolutely. That's where actual live feedback is certainly easier to judge on its merits. :-) A very critical reader can give a kudos and if you know that, you'd be proud. Or a very uncritical reader could give a kudos and you'd be glad they liked it but maybe not so proud - when it's only a click from a stranger, you never know. Not that we have to know, but I'm nosy and I'd like to know. The best feedback, for me (and surely others), is considered feedback from a knowledgeable source.

[elmey.livejournal.com]

Regarding #2: there are some writers that can make me try anything. But they're few and far between. Generally speaking, there's a lot of fandom tropes that just don't interest me--kidfic, long term established relationship, curtain fic, etc. I don't even bother to click on the stories so my lack of comment has nothing to say regarding the quality of that particular fic.

I think all of this is much easier in a large fandom, you can kudos or comment or not and stay under the radar to some extent. Every comment and kudos in a smaller fandom like this registers.

[leethet.livejournal.com]

I can't agree more and it's kind of an issue because certainly there are very good writers out there whose stuff I don't read - whose stuff, if I did read that genre or trope, I'd certainly be liking and telling them about it. That's bound to be true of my stuff too. There will be people who'll love, like it, be indifferent, hate it, and never sample it at all because they simply don't read the kind of stuff I write. And feedback being what it is, you get a very skewed sense, I think, of what those percentages are. I'm not sure why this fascinates me so much except that as a student of human nature I'm interested in how we as writers think about things v. how things really are, and we can really never know how things really are out there in our "readership." Many of us would like to, but as a reader, too, I'm sure glad I can't be forced to respond. :-)