Rules of Engagement - a poll for readers and writers

[leethet]

I've been reading, and trying to write, in a new-to-me fandom. This, and my archiving of my MFU stuff on AO3, has made me think about something.

One of the things I like about LJ is that it makes actual comments about as easy as it's possible to make them barring being face to face with an author after you've finished a story (well, easier than that - what if you hated it?). One of the things I've observed in my own reading behavior in this "new" fandom is my own commenting. Now, I don't finish about 90 percent of the stories I start to read (this is true of any fandom). Of the ones I finish, I find most to be just OK (keep in mind this includes my own [see earlier poll] so I hope I don't sound too awful). Because of this, that "kudos" button is the easiest thing in the world. It sends an accurately mild (in terms of my time investment) "this was OK" message to the author.

I like it and I don't like it.

I like it because it's the exact right level of involvement for a story I only sorta liked. If I really like something I leave a comment, because if I really like something, there's always something I have to say about it.

It echoes the "like" button on FB. This is why I don't like it (yes, I'm a hypocrite. Or just human). One of the things I don't like about FB is the pretense it allows of intimacy. Of engagement. It's an extension of those Christmas form letters - "Dear INSERT NAME HERE" followed by some boasting. It (FB) allows people to pretend to maintain relationships without any of the actual (to my old-fashioned mind) maintenance of those relationships.

In this way the "kudos" button is the same; it permits readers to feel like they've "done their part" (I don't, for the record, think readers are required to do squat for writers - just so that's clear) without having actually troubled to give real feedback. Then again, do people use it because they can't think of what to say, because they're lazy, because they're busy, because they're intimidated - or because, like me, they don't really like most stories enough to feel they merit more than a lazy, in-passing thumbs up (again, I'm not finding fault with any of these approaches, just wondering)?

So, a poll. And, as always, please elaborate in comments. The way writers and readers think about stories is endlessly fascinating to me.
[Poll #1974799]

Comments

[gilda-elise.livejournal.com]

I have mixed reactions to kudos. I leave them if I like a story, and I do have to like a story quite a lot to leave kudos. But if I really like it, I try to leave a comment, though that doesn't always happen because a lot of the time I download the story to read later.

Then there are writers, like you, who I've already read—and already have a pdf of all your work. As much as I'd like to go back and respond, time forbids.

On the flipside, while I appreciate kudos, I don't take them as seriously as I do comments. And it's sort of odd, the difference in reactions when I post a story to AO3 as opposed to the fandom's own archive. The same story will get several comments on the K/S archive, yet not many kudos on AO3. Or the reverse might happen. It's makes me wonder if those reading on AO3 might not always be "into" the fandom so much as just "into" the pairing, if that makes sense.

[leethet.livejournal.com]

Yes. AO3 is different for those of us who are used to older archives or more fandom specific archives. Skyhawke, of course, uses the star rating system and I wonder if AO3 did that one better intentionally with the kudos thing. I'm not faulting AO3, mind - I think they responded to a desire to "easily" let a writer know someone liked their story. As I mention above, the alternative wouldn't be comments - it'd be silence. So kudos are nice, and yet ... kinda blah.

I do think we here (and maybe the ST fandom, especially TOS) are less into new archives and more into places that are fandom specific, so there's that (that's just an idea I have and it might not be right).

Can you be into the pairing without being into the fandom? That's something I'll have to think about ...

[elmey.livejournal.com]

Can you be into the pairing without being into the fandom? That's something I'll have to think about ...

This is getting into a slightly different area, but the very extensive tagging on AO3 (we don't see it much in the MFU fandom except in the crossovers) has brought out a slew of readers who read for kinks as much as fandoms.

Another interesting side issue which doesn't really affect MFU is writing one pairing in a fandom rather than another because it's more popular and brings in more readers.

[leethet.livejournal.com]

I think that's really weird, but I bet that's only because I don't really have any kinks. I mean, first time is my kink (my only one, but it's HUGE) but I don't give a fart about first-time in any fandom I don't already love for its characters. Maybe it's because first time is a character-based rather than an activity based kink? If I were into bondage ... OK, I can see that I might sample a good writer's bondage story in another fandom. Yeah, it's not so weird now. I take that back.

writing one pairing in a fandom rather than another because it's more popular and brings in more readers.
Writing solely in order to get attention has never really made sense to me, but I've heard writers gripe that other writers get more readers and attention than they do - as if they're somehow owed fans and the other writers are doing something illicit, like writing "popular" pairings, in order to steal attention that these gripers think they deserve - so I know it happens. There's no reasoning with that level of neediness and self-entitlement.

[gilda-elise.livejournal.com]

Writing solely in order to get attention has never really made sense to me, but I've heard writers gripe that other writers get more readers and attention than they do - as if they're somehow owed fans and the other writers are doing something illicit, like writing "popular" pairings, in order to steal attention that these gripers think they deserve - so I know it happens. There's no reasoning with that level of neediness and self-entitlement.

I don't understand writing in another fandom just for readers, either. I write about the characters I love. Different strokes, I guess.

And griping about the writers who do that has, I think, been around for a long time. Griping, period, actually. *g* But if someone gets more readers because she's more popular or because she puts herself out there more, well, that's how it goes.

[leethet.livejournal.com]

Yes. There are many reasons a writer gets readers, and being a good writer (as defined by the usual standards of plotting, grammar, characterization, etc) is one of them but it's certainly not the only one. I think we could all name fairly terrible (by writing standards) stories that have legions of fans - because they're hitting buttons that the readers like having hit, and there's nothing at all wrong with that. We've all got our buttons (one of mine happens to be good writing skill ....).

[gilda-elise.livejournal.com]

I think you can. It's sort of like my liking Mulder/Scully fic because I like the pairing. And the show, of course. But I only occasionally read stories in that fandom, and I don't participate in any of their comms or groups. That's what I meant by that statement. :-)