Because I'm irritated...

[leethet]

...and this is the best place to vent that.



I'm irritated by people who pretend to be offering a rational argument about something they don't like, while they are in fact irrationally and ignorantly hostile to it, have never open mindedly examined it, know nothing of it, wish to know nothing of it and use as evidence against it the random opinions of other uninformed foes. How can you ever hope to comprehend something or someone when all you feel toward it is contempt based on no actual information, something you can't be bothered to learn about but can only be bothered to mock? How can you stand back and accept only misinformation and propaganda from admitted foes of something and pretend you have anything like a rational opinion about it?

Hm. I don't feel much better.

Comments

[gilda-elise.livejournal.com]

I know exactly how you feel. 'Til recently, I hadn't run into one of those for quite awhile.

Re: The thing is...

[leethet.livejournal.com]

...you know, I have no problem with a person who honestly goes "Ick! Slash. I just ... ick." Because they're acknowledging it's an emotional reaction, which we're all allowed. I don't even have a problem with a person shrugging and going "Sorry, don't see it at all." Because they're simply saying they don't draw those conclusions from canon (which is also fine). But when people who have never even read what you're discussing proceed to bash it -- when it's clear that their reaction is emotional but that they're trying to cloak it in rational argument -- and when they do that with such a tone of condescension -- well, it gets my goat and the goat's whole family. Grrrr...just admit it makes you go "ick" without trying to make slashers look like a bunch of idiot porno freaks (or we'll send the idiot porno freak segment out to get you *g*).

Re: The thing is...

[gilda-elise.livejournal.com]

Twice in the same week, I'd say he makes a habit of putting his foot in his mouth and then getting upset when people ask him what it tastes like. What an ass.

Re: The thing is...

[leethet.livejournal.com]

putting his foot in his mouth and then getting upset when people ask him what it tastes like

LMAO! I've never heard that expression before! Hee. Sweet.

[st-crispins.livejournal.com]

I'm with you and not even writing in the same genre.

I'll be ranting on my LJ too, as soon as I get some time.

Jeez. 40 years. Give it up already.

Gee...

[leethet.livejournal.com]

...but that's a nice Napoleon -- er , RV -- icon. Goodness. Very distinguished. Mmm...

Re: Gee...

[st-crispins.livejournal.com]

Thanks. I really liked that picture.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Grudge-carrying, it's a new Olympic sport. ;)

If it is a grudge...

[leethet.livejournal.com]

...I wonder why it seems to be (in this instance) against all slashers? Aren't grudges usually personal? It reminds me of the fuss in t'other fandom about people who go "Ewww, het!" and apparently actually mean it. And the ship pissiness. I mean, hell, can't you just acknowledge you don't care to read something without insulting those who do, or those who write it? And especially, how can you condescendingly mock a genre you don't even read? How do you know it all sucks when you don't read it? How???? Argh...

Ah...I am starting to feel a little better. Thanks for listening, guys!

Re: If it is a grudge...

[graculus.livejournal.com]

I was being vague because there's a plethora of possible things in fandom that could come under that rant... ;)

I tend to go 'eww, het' if I stumble across it by accident when I'm not expecting it because I do people the courtesy of labelling my slash so those who don't like it can avoid it and expect them to do likewise for me. I don't, however, seek it out so I can criticise it because, guess what, It Doesn't Interest Me. But it's no skin off my nose if the vast majority of people love the stuff as long as I don't have to read it.

The automatic assumption that one genre is better than another because it's the genre you like has always been with us and probably always will be, alas. There are always going to be people out there who think their opinion is more important than anyone else's and therefore everyone should agree with them about everything, talk about what *they* want to talk about (preferably without them having to make any effort themselves) and write the kind of stories they want to read.

Unfortunately for their peace of mind there's always going to be the rest of us too. :P

Re: If it is a grudge...

[leethet.livejournal.com]

I was being vague because there's a plethora of possible things in fandom that could come under that rant... ;)

Sigh. Ain't that the truth? There was an HP rant that got my back up; now the Channel W fuss, which was that last straw. I'm quite irritated. The condescension, the bringing in of random insults (or "jokes" as has been alleged) from mystery guests, so that you get the benefit of insulting us without taking the responsibility of saying it yourself (although, if you don't agree with those random insults from your mystery guests, why'd you bring them up in the first place?). Grr.
We all have our likes and dislikes and what we think makes sense and what doesn't, and I enjoy a discussion about those differences that doesn't take a tone of "well, it's wrong, of course, but don't you girls worry your pretty little heads about it, because I am prepared to be tolerant of your cute little porn."

Re: If it is a grudge...

[graculus.livejournal.com]

There's a reason I'm very selective about which lists I'm on in most fandoms - I can't be doing with being patronised or labelled (beyond a certain extent) and second-guessing myself for the possibility of being wilfully misunderstood gets old real fast. ;)

Re: If it is a grudge...

[leethet.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Usually I'm silent on lists for precisely those reasons. Then I decide to open my mouth on Ch. W and boom. :) Oh well.

Re: If it is a grudge...

[st-crispins.livejournal.com]

so that you get the benefit of insulting us without taking the responsibility of saying it yourself

Yes, that felt underhanded to me because there's no good way to reply.

Re: If it is a grudge...

[tgabrielle.livejournal.com]

so that you get the benefit of insulting us without taking the responsibility of saying it yourself

Yes, that felt underhanded to me because there's no good way to reply.

Re: If it is a grudge...

[tgabrielle.livejournal.com]

Um, sorry that wasn't my reply above--those were YOUR replies.

I didn't understand the purpose of those offensive annecdotes except to antagonize and ridicule. They were too crude and belittling to start a dialogue and I was amazed the list mods didn't step in. (Except to eventually defend him from misinterpretation).

Re: If it is a grudge...

[leethet.livejournal.com]

Exactly. He then was free to say "Oh, I didn't say that." Perhaps not, but then why was he quoting it? If he disagreed, why repeat the offensive quote in the first place? That he knew it was offensive is evidenced in his "sorry if this offended" disclaimer. It's a cheap shot, a way of posting insults without taking responsibility for being insulting. The thing is, have the courage of your opinions and convictions. If he does dislike slash so much (as seems to be the case -- and as is certainly his privilege), why not have the balls to say so, rather than using insulting remarks from random strangers?

[dinahmt.livejournal.com]

It's a shame that there are people who think their opinion is the only valid one so therefore everyone else must be wrong. There is no way you can convince such people to look at things from another perspective. Better to feel sorry for them for their narrow-mindedness.

[leethet.livejournal.com]

You're dead right, Di. I wanted to continue yelling on Channel W but took a deep breath, realized I wasn't going to change any minds, felt also that the poster in question's position and poor arguments in support of it were pretty evident to all ...

(but I still had to come here to bitch...) :)

[shayheyred.livejournal.com]

I'm going to guess this is in regard to a comment made on a list, right? Another reason I stay in the warm embrace of Live Journal.

[leethet.livejournal.com]

Hee. You can't say you've never seen a pissy exchange in LJ -- can you? If so, that's very pleasantly surprising. :)

[shayheyred.livejournal.com]

You can't say you've never seen a pissy exchange in LJ -- can you? If so, that's very pleasantly surprising. :)
Ha! As if. No, I've seen plenty of LJ kerfuffles...but the ones on lists are far, far worse, in my experience. At least on Live Journal you can lock out people whose vitriolic nonsense you no longer wish to read.

[franciskerst.livejournal.com]

Share the feeling and have followed the thread. For once I controlled my biting habit and don't feel better either. It was more stupid as allowed, and a little mean too, not to say somehow coward... (It's not me; I just happened to hear another guy who...)

[leethet.livejournal.com]

That was also my impression, Francis. To quote someone else's insulting remark, to repeat it in that way, is to endorse it. He was quick to deny that the words were his, but he never disagreed with the sentiment. That speaks very clearly, and not just about his contempt for slash.
It is absolutely cowardly.