A question on fandom familiarity

[leethet]

I just read a remark from someone saying they'd read and enjoyed an MFU fanfic despite knowing nothing about the show, and it got me thinking ... how?  Why? WTF? *G*

Then it occurred to me, if you read a fanfic about a show you know nothing about, you're really reading original fic, aren't you? For your purposes, it's all new, there's no "canon" (that you know about) to compare the story or characters to, there's only the writer's skill at telling a story. It's original fic.

I assume this reader read the fic because they knew the writer from another fandom and trusted their work (because I can't imagine why anyone would bother, otherwise). But I'm interested in people's thoughts on this. Is it weird to read in a fandom you know nothing about? Would you do it? If so ... why? Because it's an author you trust from elsewhere? But ... isn't it still, basically, reading original fic? So why?

Any thoughts are welcome here. This is really weird to me. :)

Comments

I confess!

[veronicaluv.livejournal.com]

That's exactly what I did with The Professionals. It was a combination of two things that started it. One, a good friend whom I trusted had seen a few eps and had waxed poetic over their adorability *g* and their so-very-married banter. That was intriguing but it wasn't until she sent me links to some outstanding stories that I was hooked.

It was actually a bit of a risk, now that I think on it, because by the time I actually watched the show, I'd fixed these characters quite firmly in my mind. I count myself very lucky that I'd read stories that were true to the show, so that when I saw the episodes, I wasn't disappointed. We all know how fanfic can wander far afield from what the source material intends!

Having said that, I think it was a fluke for me. I can't imagine reading fanfiction for something with which I had no familiarity, no matter how talented the writer. I've never followed a fanfic writer from fandom to fandom, even though I know there are outstanding stories that I'm missing.

The only other thing I'd add is that in this day and age we really don't have to read in a fanfic vacuum. There's oodles of information out there about anything, so if I were interested in something where I had no access to the source, I could readily find it. I think I did that with Pros, too - joined a listserv, used the links and info from there, and informed myself.

Re: I confess!

[leethet.livejournal.com]

Well, you actually did have a bit of a lead in - someone whose taste you knew and trusted, who knew what you liked and tempted you. That might be enough to lure someone in to read fanfic even if they don't yet have access to the show.

It's true that there's a lot available out there on even shows that are technically long off the air - but still, this person had read a fic with zero knowledge of the show, which shows that it's still possible to avoid information even when you're deluged with it. :) Nothing wrong with it, I just can't imagine it myself. What's the lure, you know? Unless, again, you really love that writer's style and look at it as original fic. :)

Re: I confess!

[franciskerst.livejournal.com]

I came to the "Professionals" without any lead; I just knew the name of the show and I had seen a few pictures of it on Liza's site (and wasn't attracted at all then). I was looking for stories in crack_van because I was a little fed up with the sort of MFU fanfiction that was published at the time (or simply I was having an overdose of it). I was extremely impressed by the outstanding writing quality of the first "Pros" stories I happened to read (the old, novel length, classic ones). Many of them have nothing to envy to the best of the mainstream literature. I didn't know anything about the show and once I dared to ask a question about a story's background, I got to be positively insulted (by rabid fans, not by the author who is perfectly civilized). I kept on reading however and almost exhausted the archives on line. Then I bought the DVDs, watched the show, liked it a lot though I didn't much recognized the characters from the fictions. Eventually I changed my favourite pairing, dropping the partners for one of them and his boss! And, still this time, it was because of a fateful story of which I strongly admired the writing. The sad result is I have now almost nothing left to read because it's a very unpopular pairing. End of the story.

Re: I confess!

[leethet.livejournal.com]

That's very interesting - especially that you devoured the fanfic first, then found the show not much like the fanfic. I imagine this would happen a lot. Fanfic develops its own ... currents, I think. I don't think it's conscious, but it's true that writers who read fanfic are affected by it, and something that occurs in one fic here, another fic there, becomes a kind of minitrend. I don't think that's bad - it's just a social aspect of fandom - but it can lead the body of fanfic work further from whatever consensus there is regarding "canon." (Such a slippery word anyway)

It's just so odd, to me, that someone would look for fanfic from a show they knew nothing about - you can only assess based on whether the writer is telling a good story or not. Would you agree with me that it is then, in essence, original fic to you as a reader?

Re: I confess!

[franciskerst.livejournal.com]

Would you agree with me that it is then, in essence, original fic to you as a reader?

In a way, yes, but an original fic with all the typical features of fanfiction. I developped this point earlier in the same discussion. See below.

Re: I confess!

[franciskerst.livejournal.com]

I certainly took my first "Pros" story as if it was an original fiction. It was so for me. However I was in a "fanfic" turn of mind; I mean, I knew I would find there some basic elements that, for me, are at the core of fanfiction (and very rarely found in the mainstream literature), that is to say: action, friendship, partners, mainly male characters (and only very minor female characters) and, principally, a strong focus put on the partners' relationship (would the story be slash or gen).

Outside fanfiction, I don't read fiction at all (with the rare exceptions of a few classic works or detective novels) necause I know in advance I will be repelled by the characters most readers seem to appreciate in the current literary trends.

Re: I confess!

[blktauna.livejournal.com]

That's very interesting - especially that you devoured the fanfic first, then found the show not much like the fanfic.

That's Pros for you. I don't know what most of the authors are watching but it sure wasn't the same show as me. Sadly, I'm seeing the same in MFU. The boys are used as shorthand or avatars for whatever story the author wants to tell, rather than as themselves in their own world, doing what they do in the show.

I prefer them in their natural habitats,ie time, place, degree of campness, etc.
why write in a fandom who's canon you don't like? I don't get that.

Re: I confess!

[leethet.livejournal.com]

Hm. Well, on the one hand I think multifandom authors sometimes suffer from this - they dabble in a new fandom but the stories are only superficially different cross-fandom. A multifannish version of any two guys. Not to say a mono fannish person might not suffer from the problem of creating her own characters and simply pasting on the names Illya and Napoleon. It just seems more common with dabblers (then again, maybe I'm just a harsher judge of the polyfannish butterflies *g*).

But I would also have to say that probably a lot of the writers you feel are not getting the feel and sense of the show feel that they are. :) Now, I grant the show was camp and low budget, but personally I prefer the stories that take things a little more seriously. I'd grant it isn't dead on canon, but it's canon as it could have been with more time and budget. At least, so I think. :) Then again, it's not an unreasonable argument to say a slasher cannot be a canon Nazi anyway. :)

Re: I confess!

[blktauna.livejournal.com]

But I would also have to say that probably a lot of the writers you feel are not getting the feel and sense of the show feel that they are. :)

I'm sure they do ;)

And I like the tongue in cheek banter, the pink gas, the big gay evil overlords. That's what makes UNCLE UNCLE. Otherwise it'd a completely different show, rather like James Bond isn't Harry Palmer isn't Napoleon Solo. They're all 60's spies but in no way alike. When you try to make one the other you lose the individual flavor. Without the individual flavor, its on its way to ATG.

Re: I confess!

[leethet.livejournal.com]

See, I love - adore - the tongue in cheek banter, but I prefer it with a slightly more serious plot. Not necessarily really heavy, but of the show's plots, I like the serious ones better, so I like fanfic that takes a more serious tone (still leaving room for banter and some ironic humor regarding the situation). But I think I understand the desire to take these guys and put them in serious situations. Granted, it's not the tone of the show, but I admit I like it (when it's not overdone. Too heavy, too dark, and, yes, it loses something of what I love about the show).

[st-crispins.livejournal.com]

It always seemed weird to me too, but apparently it's becoming more and more common.

The only fanfic I ever read that I didn't know the source text was in Professionals. A friend wrote a novel and asked me to read it and I did. I liked the novel but it didn't really interest me in the show.

[leethet.livejournal.com]

See, that's what I think would be most common - an interest in the thing itself, developed naturally and organically, leading to an interest in what are, even if they're excellent, still offshoots of the original (fic, art, vids, conventions, whatever).

But again, I have to think the reader was a fan of that writer (which, again, supports my "it's original fic to them" theory *g*). Otherwise, I really can't imagine the temptation. There has to be some hook present, it seems, whether familiarity with and liking for the author's style or, as Veronica says, a rec from a friend whose tastes you trust to correspond to your own.

[st-crispins.livejournal.com]

I have to say, if I like a source text, I might search for fanfiction but for me anyway, it doesn't work in the reverse.

[leethet.livejournal.com]

Pretty much the same for me.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

I guess it depends on what you're looking for from a particular story and how important canonicity is to you - I recall reading a shedload of fic from The Sentinel long before I'd ever seen any episodes and frankly, I'm glad it worked that way around. The show itself is so cheesy and the actors so unlike the mental picture I'd been given by the fic that I probably wouldn't have bothered if I'd ever seen the show first, and there are some excellent spinners of stories in that fandom.

However, I'd say that show was an exception for me - for the same reason I don't usually like wild AU's where they've taken characters and put them way out in another universe that doesn't resemble 'ours' (from the source material) in the slightest, it's important for me that the characters bear some resemblance to how I see them and the canon events of the source. Or that any change from canon has a logical reason behind it, if the writer's imagination is good enough to assist me in suspending my disbelief.

Horses for courses, though. After all, there seems to be an audience for pretty much anything! ;)

[leethet.livejournal.com]

My question then would be what was it that made you read that fic in the first place? Idle curiosity that led you to a good story, etc.? What was the original impetus to start reading? That's the part that's a puzzle to me, at least as regards fanfic. If I don't know an author in the bookstore, I might try their book if it looks interesting, but that doesn't work on fanfic - for me, anyway. If I'm not in the fandom, I have zero interest in the fic, even if it's recced to high heaven and even if it's by an author I love. For fanfic purposes, my mindset is different, and I want that familiar background.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Lack of knowledge about the show, which meant I wasn't actually repelled by reading fic based in it (unlike some equally productive fandoms) + the fact that there's a shedload of fic out there and it was at a time when I was basically only reading SG-1 (I think) and that fandom was small and I'd pretty much tapped it out.

I'm not much of one for crossovers, mostly because in my experience the writer knows one of the fandoms way better than the other and it's unbalanced, so I couldn't be led astray that way anything like as easily...

[leethet.livejournal.com]

That's weird to me. :) Your lack of familiarity led you into reading the fanfic? Did you go to authors you trusted from other fandoms?

[graculus.livejournal.com]

I knew the basic premise of the show in question but didn't know enough to actively dislike it (in other words, unlike some fandoms I hadn't suffered from people lecturing me about how I must get into the fandom in question, or how it was the greatest thing since sliced bread).

I don't think there were really authors I knew from elsewhere because my view of fandom was pretty limited to SG-1 (and UNCLE, to a much lesser extent because it tends to have more single fandom peeps in it)...

[leethet.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean - people insisting you're going to like something when you haven't heard anything that tempts you can be very irritating. :)

So the premise itself interested you?

[gilda-elise.livejournal.com]

It happened to me with The Professionals. A friend of mine sent me a link to a story, saying she thought I'd really like it since it was scifi. I did. A lot. It was an obvious AU and I didn't even know what one of the characters looked like, but I liked the writing so much I went on to read all the other Pros stories by the author. Then other Pros stories. I was hooked. Still am. But I did read the original story as original fic. Actually, I recently reread it and, even though I now know the characters as they're portrayed in the story are nothing like those on the show, I still love it. So I guess it's still original fic to me. One thing, though, it did make it hard for me to write in the fandom, since my impression of the characters isn't "true," not even after having seen the episodes, because it's overlaid with the one created just from the stories I read first. It's made it harder for me to create my own image of them.

Anyway, it did serve another purpose. Because of all the cross-overs between Pros and MFU, I eventually gravitated to MFU. That show I'd seen from its first airing, so the characters were already fixed in my mind. But it took reading them in a slash setting with Pros to get me into that part of the MFU fandom.

[leethet.livejournal.com]

It's not at all that it's a bad thing to read fanfic as original fic (it's weird to me, but that doesn't make it bad), except that if you do get into the actual show/book/whatever ... I would think it'd be a jolt, as you indicated. :) I do think whatever your original source, that's how you see the characters to a large degree, whether that source be the show, good in-character fanfic, or wildly OOC fanfic that makes you eventually think "what show was this writer watching?" when you actually see the show. :) (With, of course, the caveat that in character and OOC are in the eye of the beholder).

[tainry.livejournal.com]

Donna or lyrebird or someone pointed me at some From Eroica With Love fics. These were MfU crossovers, but I'd never heard of Eroica and I ended up reading some Eroica-only fics as well. Another for your 'trusted recc' tally. ^__^

[leethet.livejournal.com]

That's a way, too - crossovers. That can tempt a person, easing the way in with familiar characters and settings.

[frau-flora.livejournal.com]

I don't ever read fanfic about a show I've never watched. I don't see a point in it when I don't know the characters. I have read the odd MFU crossover (and enjoyed it) but it didn't make me want to watch the other show. The most that I did was look for photographs of the characters from the other show, found them unattractive and that was that.

However, I wouldn't regard it as original fic. Fanfic is usually strongly focussed on two (slash) or very few (gen) characters from a show. Original characters do appear but they usually only play a supporting role (unless they're Mary Sues). In fanfic I wouldn't have it any other way. In original fic I expect a little more.

Obviously fanfic as opposed to original fic has a certain setup and character description that appeals to fanfic readers even if they don't know the show. I don't really understand it but there are numerous examples for this, not least in the comments to your post here.

[leethet.livejournal.com]

It's possible you misunderstood me a bit. :) It isn't original fic just because the reader hasn't seen the show, of course. But from that reader's perspective, there is no familiarity with canon, character, setting, episode references, etc. The reader is entirely reliant on what the writer has presented in that story for her understanding of what's happening, and there can be, basically, no complaint of the story not following canon or characterization, because the reader has only the writer's own story to go by. In that sense, it's read as original fic - fic with no source foundation for that reader.

That fanfic is often structurally different from original fic is of course true, but beside my actual point. :)

[xincinsin.livejournal.com]

Most times, I start reading in a fandom because I enjoyed book/movie/TV show but I've often read in fandoms I know nothing about because I liked an author, or because the fic sounded interesting when I skimmed a multi-fandom rec list. I started reading MfU with only the vaguest recollections of the TV show. And I began reading Harry Potter (the books) only after I'd read the fanfic, which I started looking at only because a cross-over tale (And I believe some HP fanfic far outstrips the quality of the books!).

I don't think you need to know anything about a show to read the fanfic unless events in said fanfic were highly contingent on background knowledge. If I'd known how hilarious The Sentinel was, I might not have approached its fanfic with such seriousness (3 years after reading the fanfic, I finally caught one ep on the afternoon repeats). And I still haven't watched a single ep of Magnificent 7 but I read and enjoy lot of the fanfic: gen, het, slash. Do I consider these forays into the unknown on par with my reading original fic? I suppose I do especially for slash stories, except that for fanfic, I do have the recourse of research if I wanted to know more.

[leethet.livejournal.com]

But you at least had some vague recollection of MFU? That would be enough, if a description was tempting. I could see thinking "Ooh, I used to like that show, this looks like fun." There's a tie in, even if it's vague.

It's not that I think one has to know about a show/book to read fanfic. Clearly you only need to be able to read. :) But generally, with fanfic the lure is that the story is about characters you already care about, or a setting you find fascinating. Without that ... what's the lure? Lots of time on your hands and idle curiosity? A really interesting rec (I did that once, actually read a Batman/Robin story - a fandom I'm, of course, aware of, but in which I did not, and do not, read - because the rec was very interesting)? An author you love? I just wonder what the impetus is, in the absence of the usual impeti. :)

(And I entirely agree that several HP authors are far better than JKR)

[xincinsin.livejournal.com]

OK, I think I have to confess that the "lots of time on your hands" bit probably applies to me. I did a lot of exploring into unfamiliar territory when I was on maternity leave and "on call" for son's dietary demands. Once that became established as a habit, I became very receptive to reading in fandoms I knew nothing about. There are several now which have become my faves and I went into all of them "backwards" (fanfic first, then canon). As a corollary to your musings, I have had a couple of cases where love of the canon led me to reject the fanfic - namely Zelazny's Amber books and Peter Pan. I like the original fic too much to accept variations on the theme, especially slash variations.

And btw, I do enjoy Batman slash - mainly with Nightwing though. Batman/Robin (in either incarnation) is a tad too chan for me.

[leethet.livejournal.com]

Oh, dude, it's not a sin! I have no life, which allows for piles of fanfic reading if I'm inclined. :) But was it simply boredom that tempted you? What led you in to those fandoms, if you knew nothing at all about them? Why the ones you chose and not others, for instance? There must have been some key thing that made you go "Oh, that looks like a good read"??

The Batman/Robin I read was well written but in no way tempted me to read further. It just isn't a fandom I'm interested in, however talented the fanficcers are. That's why it's weird to me to see people read in a fandom they don't already love. The only way - the only way - I read fanfic is if I'm already so in love with the characters that I'm dying for more stories on them (and so far it's gone hand in hand with writing it as well).

Strangely, I could dig Amber fanfic if it was well done. The writer would need to try to capture Zelazny's style (somewhat, at least) and humor. I'd read it. :) After all, I've written my own original fic that's basically a rip off of Amber, so I think I could read other people's ripoffs. :)

[xincinsin.livejournal.com]

You set me thinking. Familiarity paved the way at first. I randomly tried searching for MfU using Alta Vista. I'd had internet access for years but a 14.4 modem is really slow. File 40 made me go "wow!" and I think it took me a couple of days to understand the concept of "slash". Then I started looking for other stuff that I liked - mainly The Professionals, X-files, Nikita, Buffy.

Why did I go to fandoms I knew nothing about?

In 85% of the cases, it was because an author I liked wrote in more than one fandom. MfU crossovers with Pros, an XF author who wrote HP, another XF author who wrote Batman fanfic.

5% of the cases because of an intriguingly written rec or rivetting image. I took a tour of The Sentinel that way. And it is usually the way I read anime fanfic - too many fandoms, too many stories, so I look at recs instead and taste-try anything that sounds interesting. Anime fans are very fond of posting lists of their favorite characters (complete with pics and mini-bio) so I'd check out any that sound/look appealing. I say "intriguing written" because if the rec is simply gushing praise with no details given, I tend not to click the link.

The last 10% are arrived at by unorthodox means. I sometimes search on subjects and the Google list turns up a fic which I read and then get sucked into the fandom. I found fic on anime/manga Peacemaker Kurogane when I was researching COPD, and I went into many obscure fandoms blind when I was wondering what else Michael Biehn/Nick Lea had acted in.

[leethet.livejournal.com]

I know of a few cases where it was the author the reader followed into strange fandoms. I don't get that myself - even if I love an author, I'm not likely to be interested in his/her work outside the area I read. Too much good stuff within my parameters, usually. :) Still, that's not an uncommon way to read outside one's usual fandoms, so I hear.

I mostly see the media first, then read when I want more/run out of canon

[raveninthewind.livejournal.com]

But I have followed many an author into unfamiliar territory, and it's worked out for me. My tastes are multifandom anyway, so when I've read few stories and liked the characters, I tend to seek the media and then dive back in to the fanfic.

Re: I mostly see the media first, then read when I want more/run out of canon

[leethet.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's not to imply that that's a wrong way to do it, only that to me it's mysterious, because I always have the interest in the book or show first. Even if I loved an author I wouldn't read their stuff in another fandom, not because I doubt their ability, but because it's basically orig. fic, to me, and about people I'm just not interested in. :) Weird, because I'll certainly read original fic. I suppose it's that when I'm in fannish mindset, I'm here for the familiar characters/setting.

(How'd you find this LJ? ;-) You do know you've got me friended in HP, don't you?)

how I found your LJ

[raveninthewind.livejournal.com]

You commented to another commenter to an HP rec post I made in Crack Van.

And I have read and enjoyed your MfU writing, in particular "Liaison."

Re: how I found your LJ

[leethet.livejournal.com]

Oh! Thanks! I didn't know you were in MFU too (although probably if I was a little more on the ball, I would have). You did know I'm auctasinistra, didn't you? (It's not exactly a secret, but not that many people are aware of it). :-)

Re: your HP pseud

[raveninthewind.livejournal.com]

No, I didn't know! I remember reading that LJ when you first started posting, and I check back regularly, you know. You are one of my favorite HP writers, definitely. I like how human you write Snape and Harry without exaggerating. That might be why I like you MfU, too. The MfU writers on teh whole seem to me to have a tendency to write Napoleon and Illya as more idealized, as archetypes rather than men. Not necessarily bad in some cases, but I didn't always recognize the characters in the show was being those in the stories. I do like the canon and the fanfic, but I had a much harder time finding MfU stories I really loved. You know, the ones so good that I make people who haven't seen the canon read.

I'm not sure why I never friended you; I think I'd gotten away from friending monofannish LJs, and I didn't know we had another fandom in common.

Re: your HP pseud

[leethet.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm a serious compartmentalizer. It's not that one fandom's secret from another so much as that I like having fandom appropriate pseudonyms, and I like having a bunch of different looking LJs. :-) I like tidy boxes. I know, pathetic.

I agree with you about wanting the characters to be human (maybe a little better than average *g*) and also for them to be men. I'm delighted that the days of making IK a delicate flower are over. Who are your favorite MFU writers?

Re: my old pseud

[raveninthewind.livejournal.com]

And I probably first commented to auctasinistra as vamplover84. (I renamed my LJ about 18 mos. ago.)

Re: my old pseud

[leethet.livejournal.com]

I remember you!