This has been said before

[leethet]

Even by me but I'm thinking about issues of trust and power because of the discussions on the MFU slash channels (and because of RL thing). It's an interesting insecurity that some people have that makes them need to have power over others in a relationship; trust is a crucial part of that. To some people, if you won't surrender your power/safety to them, it's proof you don't trust them, and their self-esteem (and perhaps their trust of you) plummets.
For a spy, trust is crucial, power is a constant issue, and I'm firmly on the side of the sexual divide that says NS/IK trust each other wholly and are as equal as two men so different can ever be. I've heard the arguments that as thrill seekers and powerful men in their own right, they would bring those traits to bed with them and use them with (I'd call it "against") each other, but I just don't buy it. I don't buy men who deal with force and distrust and lies and the constant threat of pain and death (perhaps a thrill, but -- unless the guys are insane, which I don't see in my little fantasy world though some have written them so -- the "thrill" of being hurt must pall) bringing all the worst of their daily world to bed with them as a toy. Mind, it's there, but more as something to be set aside for the novelty and warmth of love and trust than as something to be wallowed in when it can safely be fled.
Then again, maybe it's part of my theory that most people just don't wish to bring their work home with them. I know there are exceptions to that (hell, I'm willing to edit people for free, and what is that if not bringing my work home?) but when one's work is UNCLE ... I just think they would go mad if they didn't have a safe and good place to go sometimes. That would be, of course, each other.
I suppose I also see the guys as too sane and sensible to put up with being manipulated and emotionally abused by a lover. If one posits that NS/IK are basically good, and basically sane -- what good and sane man, however much a thrill seeker, would put up with such a shit of a lover? Why not walk? I don't see either of them as masochists. Being a white knight may necessitate a sort of masochism, but to save the world, not just to get off.
This is probably just my boring white bread nature showing through; I've heard some folks say that sort of thing adds spice to a relationship. And I wouldn't suggest the guys would have a perfect relationship; I doubt one exists in the real world, and if one did in fiction it'd be godawful dull to read about. But when I see behavior that to me is abusive (I was going to say "smacks of abuse"...hell, shoulda gone for the chuckle there) either emotionally or physically, I think "The person who does this is a bastard, not someone I want to know or read about, and the person who puts up with it is an idiot and needs a smack in the head to knock some of the masochism out of him." I just don't want to read about them. I suppose I prefer escapism. :)

Comments

[dinahmt.livejournal.com]

Very interesting post, Lee. It made me think about my own take on the guys. So far I've not written anything beyond both of them being a little stunned by sudden recognition of sexual chemistry and the agonising that must take place before embarking on a homosexual relationship in the moral climate of the sixties. There is most certainly trust between them in all but one of my stories, and even in that, it's because IK's head is out of gear after being drugged to the eyeballs. So, yes, I see them as trusting each other.

It's an interesting insecurity that some people have that makes them need to have power over others in a relationship; trust is a crucial part of that. To some people, if you won't surrender your power/safety to them, it's proof you don't trust them, and their self-esteem (and perhaps their trust of you) plummets.

You have hit the button there when you say people who need to exercise power over others are insecure. I have seen this again and again and it is typical for the power junkie to actually have low self-esteem and feel the need to bolster this by proving that they can have power over others. I don't see either NS or IK suffering from low self esteem. The whole chemistry between them seems to stem from their complementary personalities and skills.

Having said all this, I am quite happy to read stories which show insecurity and/or manipulation if it is well done and can convince me of the reason for it. For instance, some stories take IK as having been sexually abused in the past. This would lead to low self esteem and possibly a fear of sex. It would not necessarily interfere with his effectiveness as an agent and would perhaps only surface during sexual encounters. I have read this dealt with sensitively and credibly and satisfyingly resolved.

[leethet.livejournal.com]

Having said all this, I am quite happy to read stories which show insecurity and/or manipulation if it is well done and can convince me of the reason for it.

Oh yeah! Me too. That's the essence of a good writer, when it comes to "far out" characterization, isn't it? That the power of the writing compels you to believe at least while you're reading the story -- at least enough that you accept it as a possible view of who the guys would be, even if it's very different from your own view.

[vysila.livejournal.com]

Nice post, Lee, and really, it sums up my own feelings about their relationship pretty well. While I think there's a lot to be said for insecurities and power plays and trust issues making for a very interesting story full of personal conflict, it's not my default view of who these guys are in their "off" time and what they bring to a sexual relationship. Particularly in an on-going relationship; some angst, insecurity, etc. is bound to happen in first time stories. I'd expect them to work through those issues at some point in a continuing relationship. There are challenges a-plenty in their lives and sometimes even tough guys need a sfe and peaceful space, y'know?

I guess I'll just join you over there in the white bread aisle...