This is why
29 December 2003 02:27 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
leethetI would hate to actually be a fly on the wall when others are discussing my stories. I'm dabbling in another (very large) fandom. Through various sources I've discovered, to my surprise and delight, that I've been rec'd on a few sites. I also discovered one person who HATES the story that was rec'd. This was quite a blow to my swollen ego, and I realized that people almost never say anything really bad -- or should I say critical -- about my writing. That caused me to dwell on how a person would feel if they never got praise and ONLY got reactions such as I generated in this certain reader (and mind you, her criticisms were totally valid...ouch ouch ouch). I'm pretty comfy with my workmanlike writing skills; that is, I know I'm not great but I know I don't suck, and when it comes to fanfic I'm content. And her remark still rankled. I think my conclusion is that I need my stuff criticized more so I'm more comfortable with opinions other than "great." I also wonder how many people who'd be perfectly able to offer those opinions (in MFU, since that's where the bulk of my stuff is) are remaining silent for fear of offending or of simply being ignored or insulted. This has been discussed in many forums in MFU (and probably in this other huge fandom as well) but despite a writer saying "Go ahead, let me have it" people rarely do it. I find myself wondering if a part of me isn't grateful for that -- but that's the sucky cowardly part of me. I prefer the truth, even when it hurts. This is probably mostly because in the final analysis I'll write what I want and not really care if people like it or hate it. All the same, I feel bad in a kind of abstract way that this one reader wasted her time on my story. I know how it feels to read something I dislike so much I want to email the writer a bitchslap. :) Sigh. I'm comforted that the voice of the hater was in the minority (at least the minority of the vocal people...how can a person ever know what all those silent readers are thinking?). So I'm left, again, wondering if it's not really better to simply stay out of the places where one's writing is discussed (at least in fandom) in order to not feel influenced by that which should really not influence one.
no subject
Date: 29 December 2003 03:29 am (UTC)It's not something I've personally experienced, but I know that many people I know have talked about things like sending people (who've invited comment) feedback that isn't 100% positive and getting their arse handed to them on a plate. Kind of makes you a bit jumpy, I reckon?
All the same, I feel bad in a kind of abstract way that this one reader wasted her time on my story.
Next time, get your foot off her neck so she can go read something else, okay? ;) Seriously, people know where the 'delete' button is, or can hit the 'back' button on their browser.
I have minimal sympathy for people who're all 'oh, I read it all so I could see if it got any worse/better'. For me that's on a par with 'I kept banging my head on the wall because it felt so good when I stopped!'.
no subject
Date: 29 December 2003 06:07 am (UTC)You're absolutely right, Graculus. It is deceiving, but those people who invite it are also deceiving themselves. And it isn't just the new writers, it is often people who are very established writers in fanfic... I've even seen it with someone who also writes pro.
Jane
no subject
Date: 29 December 2003 06:02 am (UTC)Should you stick around in a forum where someone doesn't like your writing? You should recognize -- when you can get past the uncomfortable awkwardness -- that by inducing strong feelings in this reader (well, strong enough to write about them) you have been successful as a writer.
Don't feel apologetic that she "wasted her time" reading your story. If the story was in a fanzine, she can resell it, if it's online it didn't cost her anything. No, not even her time because despite her reaction, she did get something out of it.
Jane
Yeah...
Date: 29 December 2003 08:35 am (UTC)Well, it's not as if anyone's objections would stop me writing. :) Whether or not I write (anything, fanfic or original stuff) is really irrespective of others' opinions. And only wholesale hatred would stop me posting something I felt like sharing, because if everyone hated my stuff, heck, I'd keep it to myself. Why waste the time? :) I post in the hope someone will be entertained, as I've been entertained by others' stories, not out of a particularly deep need for kissies (not that I mind them!). I think the thing that's making me reflective here most is something I've puzzled before: you really cannot know what "the world" or "the readership" thinks of your stuff. This is part and parcel of a philosophy of mine (I've just realized!) that one never knows others as well as one thinks one does. We do so much self deceit and so much presenting of what we wish to present to others that when the truth (good or bad) gets spilt it can often be shockingly at odds with what has been perceived as truth.
Not that I imagined my stuff universally loved, I hasten to add. *g* I think it's more that I figure my stuff's so damn' bland, how could anyone work up the level of hatred I seem to've seen there? I'm puzzled about that, so it kinda nags me, as though there's something else underlying it. Hard to imagine since I'm a stranger to her and not really involved in the fandom.
Hm...you type long enough, you hit on what's bothering you. That's it. I'm puzzled by the vitriol, not the dislike of the story. And the nature of the internet and the reading of strangers' opinions and stories is that it's not so easy to approach a person and say "Expound, por favor."
And I'm with you, Jane and Grac, on the whole "no one forced her." :) That's generally my response when someone goes on and on about how they hated a story (usually not one of mine, thankfully, but it's bound to happen eventually *g*).
Re: Yeah...
Date: 29 December 2003 10:54 am (UTC)Jane
no subject
Date: 29 December 2003 11:59 am (UTC)This is very true, and in all kinds of writing. I have had experiences similar to what you describe and it's rather unsettling to be hated by people you hardly know and have never even met.
But as others pointed out, no one will like everything you write, especially if there's a lot of it. In the end, all you can do is produce the best work you can --- work that you, yourself, are satisfied with.
As far as honest criticism, that's what good beta readers are for. In my experience teaching writers, criticism can only be truly constructive when the writer is ready for it.
no subject
Date: 29 December 2003 02:57 pm (UTC)Well, it's important to remember that your stories are not you. In the end, it's just a story.
I suspect this person has had such a negative response *because* others are reccing it. I had much the same reaction to the movie 'Pirates of the Caribbean'. So many fans raved about it like it was the bestest movie ever: I saw it and was mildly amused in parts, but felt it was patchy at best.
My responses are often shaped by the views of others. The more a fic is recced, the more my expectations are raised. So the possibility of disappointment is also much greater.
Maybe that's what has happened in this case. Often our responses are affected by external events that are outside your control. But in any case, I still think it is worth reading her comments to find out why it didn't work for her. It may help clarify for you what *you* really want to get across in your writing.
Yeah.
Date: 29 December 2003 11:34 pm (UTC)Yeah. I think so. From the little I gather her tastes are a bit extreme and my stuff is very middle of the road, so she might easily have had to plummet far from her hopes.
But in any case, I still think it is worth reading her comments to find out why it didn't work for her. It may help clarify for you what *you* really want to get across in your writing.
Totally agree here. I always want specifics. She comment on cliched plotline (she was dead right) and an error of fact (again, dead right) but neither accounts for the vitriol I perceived, unless I was misreading that, which is possible.
This of course goes back to the idea of constructive criticism, rather than "I hated it." That's a valid response, but a useless criticism. This reader's crits were actually informative, though truth be told they won't alter how I do fanfic. Face it, I'm a lazy sod. :)
criticism, etc.
Date: 31 December 2003 08:29 pm (UTC)Obviously, there's no way you can know how many people are saying to themselves, 'wow, I loved that story,' or 'that was a waste of time.' Many readers won't tell you one way or another. (Are we getting twenty per cent feedback? ten per cent? one per cent?) When I do get feedback, I can't help but consider the source. If the source is a friend, I figure some of the praise is good will. If it's someone whose name I recognize from a list, I consider what they've posted and what they've recced. Are they easily pleased? Are they crazy about everything? The most valued criticism is from people who are not friends, but acquaintances, who have a track record of good writing themselves. There are two people in this discussion who have sent me feedback in the past year that I valued greatly. I should have picked their brains at the time and got constructive criticism as well. Maybe I didn't want to impose, or my head was just so swelled that I didn't seize the moment.
As far as accepting criticism, I have received some postscripts (There WAS this one little part...) that were helpful, and I don't remember serving anyone her head on a platter.
Oh, and I would love to be a fly on the wall at a discussion of my fic. I am bowled over that I actually have the opportunity to create. If anyone had told me a couple years ago that I'd be writing stories and posting them on the internet for all to see, I'd have said, SURRRRRRE.
Nat
Re: criticism, etc.
Date: 1 January 2004 11:56 am (UTC)This is the sort of thing I wonder, not because I have an urgent need to know precisely how much I'm adored or hated, but out of a rather strong curiosity to know the truth behind the assumptions. That is, there are theories out there about the proportion of LOCs to readers and stuff, and I always question the facts behind "statistics," you know? The thing that stopped me a while back was Clare being kind enough to say I was a popular MFU writer. I appreciated the kind remark, but I wondered "How can she know?" You know? At what point does a person cross that line from not popular to popular (which one would guess means "liked by a fair proportion of readers" -- and then, what's a fair proportion?), and on the internet, how can we know (unless, I guess, there's a poll, and even then, polls are only representative of those who respond, and the phrasing of the question matters enormously. If you took a poll of the entire U.S. asking "have you ever murdered someone" we'd get a WAY lower murder rate than this country actually has)? Then again, it may be a purely subjective response, since the word "popular" has no number attached to it, and that's fine too, but I had an image in my head of X = MFU fanfic readers, Y = the subset who likes my stuff, Z = the subset who don't...you know, actual numbers, which as far as I know no one has any real grasp on. And it made me curious about those numbers. Maybe I just like pie charts? I think I have the soul of a bean counter. I like hard facts (pretty funny for a fantasy fiction writer who HATES research).
Oh, and I would love to be a fly on the wall at a discussion of my fic.
Oh man. You're braver than I. Remember if you're a fly on the wall the critiquers don't know you're there and are not obligated to spare your feelings, even so far as being civil. *g*
Re: criticism, etc.
Date: 1 January 2004 06:39 pm (UTC)>>Oh, and I would love to be a fly on the wall at a discussion of my fic.
>Oh man. You're braver than I. Remember if you're a fly on the wall the critiquers don't know you're there and are not obligated to spare your feelings, even so far as being civil. *g*
I guess I would dismiss anything that was mean or personal as invalid, but would value any thoughtful comment. I know you would too. But you've also been through a lot of workshops, and know what goes on.
Nat
Re: criticism, etc.
Date: 2 January 2004 10:43 am (UTC)But what I was thinking is it can distract from the possible validity of the comments, or the writer's ability to process said comments, if they're delivered rudely.